2014-04-02 02:30, abc rašė:
> Nuobodu skaityti lietuvišką ir rusišką propagandą.
> O ką iš tiesų mano Vakarai?
>
> American Perspective
>
> http://www.institutionalinvestor.com/blogarticle/3315726/Blog/Will-Russia-Go-to-War-Over-Ukraine-Dont-Bet-on-It.html?LS=Twitter
>
>
> German Perspective
>
> "The leader of the opposition, Gregor Gysi, will speak now:
>
> Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen. Putin wants to solve the whole
> crisis in Ukraine militarily. He has not understood that the problems of
> humanity can neither be solved by soldiers, nor by weapons. On the
 >
Akivaizdus nesupratimas del kulturiniu skirtumu. Baudziauninku 
visuomenei tai pats tinkamiausias problemu sprendimo budas

> contrary. Also Russia’s problems cannot be solved this way. His thinking
> and his actions are wrong and we condemn them explicitly. Yet, it is the
> same thinking that was and is present in the west for Yugoslavia,
> Afghanistan, Iraq and Lybia. System confrontations were replaced by the
> opposing interests of the USA and Russia. The Cold War is over, but such
> opposing interests can lead to very similar traits. The USA want to gain
> more influence and defend existing influence and Russia wants to gain
> more influence and defend existing influence. When talking about Russia,
> I shall only mention Georgia, Syria, Ukraine.
>
> Even when one condemns Putin’s actions, one must also look at how the
> whole confrontation and intensification came to be. And I shall tell it
> to you very clearly: Everything that the NATO and the EU could have done
> wrong, was done wrong.
>
> I begin with Gorbachev in the year 1990. He suggested to form a common
> European house: Dissolving of the NATO and the Warsaw Pact and finding a
> common security with Russia. This is what the NATO denied. They said:
 >
Argi tai klaida? Gorbaciovus Rusijoje gali ant pirstu skaiciuoti. Kad 
toks atsirado - atsitiktinumas. Daugiau tokio nebus.

> Dissolving the Warsaw Pact: Yes. The NATO stays… And from the defending
> alliance was made an interventional alliance. The second error: With the
> creation of German unity, the US foreign minister and the German foreign
> minister of the time, Genscher, and other foreign ministers told
> Gorbachev: No eastwards extension of the NATO will take place. This
 >
Pazadas buvo duotas tuomet kai TSRS imperija nebuvo subyrejusi.

> promise was broken. There was a radical extension of the NATO towards
> Russia. And the former US foreign minister Robert Gates described the
> rapid inclusion of the East European states into the NATO as a grave
> mistake and the attempt of the West to include Ukraine into the NATO as
> grave provocation - that’s not what I said, this was said by the former
 >
Ukraina gali pretenduoti tapti NATO nare tuomet kai ims grasinti Kinija. 
Siandien - jokiu sansu. Nebent, kaip sakei, parduoti Donetska ir 
baudziauninkams pazadeti komunizma. Bet ar NATO tokius idijotus priimtu?
"Buvęs Pentagono vadovas R. Gatesas: Lietuvos priėmimas į NATO – klaida"
delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/buves-pentagono-vadovas-r-gatesas-lietuvos-priemimas-i-nato-klaida.d?id=63759618

> US foreign minister! Then, third, the decision was made to station
> rockets in Poland and the Czech Republic. The Russian government said:
 >
Taip, tai labai grubi klaida, kuri tures toli einancias pasekmes

> This concerns our security interests, we do not want this. The West
> couldn’t care less and it was done anyway. And finally, the NATO gravely
> and repeatedly violated international law in the Yugoslavian war. This
> is meanwhile even confirmed by former German chancellor Schröder. Serbia
> had not attacked another state and there was no decree of the UN
> Security Council. And yet, bombs were dropped, and for the first time
> since 1945 with German involvement. The citizens of Kosovo were allowed
> to decide for the separation from Serbia in a plebiscite.
>
Cia kalbama apie bombas. Idomu ka jis mano apie Lietuvos 
Nepriklausomybe. Neverta demesio,nes nebuvo bombu?

> Back then, I heavily criticised these violations of international law
> and I have told you for the case of Kosovo that a Pandora’s Box is being
> opened. Because if this is allowed in Kosovo, then you must also allow
 >
Tomasevskininkai kiekviena diena zada kosova Lietuvoje. Spaudoje taip pat.

> it in other regions. You insulted me. You did not take it seriously. And
> you did this because you thought you were such victors of the Cold War
> that all old measures were not applicable to you anymore. I tell you:
> The Basks ask why they can’t have a plebiscite that asks whether they
 >
JAV nepriestarauja Krymo referendumui. Tik garsiai to nepasako, kad 
durniai nepradetu isterikuoti.
"JAV viceprezidento pamokos Lietuvos prezidentei"
delfi.lt/news/ringas/politics/a-zuokas-jav-viceprezidento-pamokos-lietuvos-prezidentei.d?id=64321832
Tikrąjį atsakymą, ko atvyko ir ką norėjo pasakyti JAV viceprezidentas, 
matyt, išspaudino ABC interneto puslapyje žurnalistė Ali Weinberg, 
lydėjusi viceprezidentą kelionėje į Lenkiją ir Lietuvą: “Biden’s message 
to them over the next two days will be clear — the United States, NATO 
and the EU have your back but please let us handle it and don’t make 
things worse!  „Joe Bideno žinia jiems (Lenkijai ir Baltijos valstybėms) 
per šias dvi dienas yra aiški - JAV, NATO ir ES apsaugos jas (Lenkiją ir 
Baltijos valstybes), bet prašome palikti tą rūpestį mums (JAV, NATO ir 
ES) ir nesikiškite, kad reikalai dar nepablogėtų!”.


> want to belong to Spain or not. The Catalans ask why they can’t have a
> plebiscite that asks whether they want to belong to Spain or not. And so
> do the citizens of Crimea. And through violation of international law,
> through habitual law, you can create new international law, you know
> that. Yet, my opinion stands that the detachment of Crimea would be
> violating international law - as was the detachment of Kosovo.
>
> I knew that Putin would refer to Kosovo and that is just what he did.
> And now you, Ms. chancellor, tell me that this situation is totally
> different. [Someone (Ms. Roth?) shouting “It is!”]. Yes, that may be…
> But you disregard that international law violation is international law
 >
Man tai skamba kaip Putino veiksmu pateisinimas

> violation. My dear Ms. Roth, why don’t you ask a judge if a theft of
> noble motive is not a theft in comparison to a theft of non-noble
> motive. He will tell you that it stays a theft. That is the problem!
> That is the problem! And Mr. Struck has explained a while ago that the
> Federal Republic of Germany must defend its security at the Hindu Kush.
> Now Mr. Putin explains Russia must defend its security at Crimea.
> Germany, by the way, had no fleet at Hindu Kush and was considerably
> further away. Still I say, both sentences were and are wrong.
>
> Yet, the following holds: When many international law violators blames
> international law violator Russia to violate international law, this is
> not particularly effective and trustworthy. That is the fact we are
> facing. Obama spoke, like you, Ms. chancellor, of the sovereignty and
> territorial integrity of the nations. But, these two principles were
> violated in Serbia, Iraq and Lybia. The West thought it could violate
> international law because the Cold War was over. Chinese and Russian
> interest were heavily underestimated. You did not take Russia with
> Yeltsin, who was often even drunk, serious anymore. But the situation
> changed. Very lately, you now again reference the principles of
 >
Aiskiai raso: Rusija jau ne girtuokliu rankose. Putinas apvale. Savo 
laiku ta buvo padares Stalinas. Tai ta pati priezastis kodel abu vadovus 
rusai dievina.

> international law that were established in the Cold War. I am very much
> in favour of them being valid again, but then for all! This is the only
> way.
>
> Then there was the tug of war between the EU and Russia with Ukraine in
> the middle. Both thought and acted the same. Barroso, head of the
> European Commission, said EITHER customs union with Russia OR contracts
> with us. He did not say BOTH. Either-or! And Putin said EITHER contracts
> with us OR the EU. Both thought and acted alternatively in the same way.
 >
Jeigu reikalai butu tvarkomi ne Vilniuje tai butu kitaip? Si klausima 
reiketu issinagrineti patierms lietuviams. Nes tai esminis klausimas. 
Jeigu isvadu nebus tuomet vakaru politiku galvose atsiras abejones ar 
Lietuva is viso verta Nepriklausomybes. Gal tuomet geriau ja padaryti 
Lenkijos provincija su tomasevskininku sunisku atsidavimu Varsuvai?

> It was a gigantic mistake from both sides. No EU foreign minister tried
 >
Nereikejo lietuviu sunu prileisti prie rusu meskos. O kur tuo metu buvo 
patys medziotojai? Girti voliojosi kol ju palaidi sunis po apylinkes lakste?

> to speak to the Russian government while even recognising the rightful
> security interests of Russia. Russia is afraid that behind the EU, the
> NATO will enter Ukraine. It feels more and more surrounded. But everyone
 >
Negali buti jokiu abejoniu, kad po EU sektu NATO

> pulled at Ukraine. The EU and NATO foreign ministers completely ignored
> the history of Ukraine. They never understood the importance of Crimea
> to Russia. And Ukrainian society is deeply divided. Also this was not
 >
Kas butu lietuvoje jeigu tomasevskininku butu ne 5%, o 50%. Jau dabar 
tie 5% terorizuoja 95%. O juk Ukrainoje visiskai kitos proporcijos.

> recognised. This deep division already showed in WWII. And it shows
> today. East Ukraine tends to Russia, West Ukraine tends to western
> Europe. At this moment, there is no single Ukrainian political figure
> that could represent both parts of society. That is a sad truth.
>
Janukovicius buvo idealus prezidentas. O gal jus manote, kad Tymosenko 
geresne? Janukoviciaus klaida ta, kad jam reikejo, grizus is Vilniaus, 
paskelbti referenduma ir sustabdyti prezidentavima iki referendumo 
rezultatu. Jeigu referendumas butu neigiamas - atsistatydinti ir skelbti 
naujus rinkimus.

> And then there is the Council of Europe and the Organisation for
> Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) which you gravely neglected,
> Ms. chancellor, Mr. foreign minister. The funding for these
> organisations was cut more and more in the past because you thought they
> were not important. Yet they are the only organisations in which both
> Russia and Ukraine also take part. Thus we must strengthen these
> organisations and not discuss over Russia’s exclusion. That is
> completely missing the point.
>
> Then we saw a massive intensification on Maidan. Then we saw snipers and
> many deaths. There are various rumours. In such situations, people lie a
Tik lietuviai nemeluoja. Nes... jie kalba ir girdi tik tai ka nori.
"Nutekintas Estijos užsienio reikalų ministro pokalbis su C. Ashton 
kelia sumaištį"
3w 
delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/nutekintas-estijos-uzsienio-reikalu-ministro-pokalbis-su-c-ashton-kelia-sumaisti.d?id=64201168
....kur estų ministras pasakoja, esą Ukrainoje vis stiprėja nuomonė, kad 
į policijos pareigūnus ir žmones gatvėje šaudę snaiperiai galėjo būti 
pasamdyti ne tuometinio prezidento Viktoro Janukovyčiaus, o kažko iš 
naujosios koalicijos.
„Nerimą kelia, kad nauja koalicija nenori ištirti, kas iš tiesų nutiko. 
Todėl vis stiprėja įsitikinimas, kad už snaiperių yra ne V. 
Janukovyčius, o kažkas iš naujosios koalicijos“, - pasakoja U. Paetas.
Tuo tarpu Vilniaus universiteto Tarptautinių santykių ir politikos 
mokslų instituto dėstytojas Nerijus Maliukevičius sako, jog garso įraše 
jis girdi ne tai, ką rašo „Russia Today“. Yra dvi frazės, kurios 
nuskamba iš Estijos užsienio reikalų ministro, kurios man skamba taip: 
vienas, kad koalicija nerodo iniciatyvos tirti šaudymo, ir kitas sakinys 
– kad egzistuoja supratimas, jog tas, kas šaudė, buvo kažkas iš 
koalicijos. Tai du sakiniai, kuriuos išklausęs ir žinodamas Baltijos 
šalių kontekstą, interpretuoju visiškai kitaip, nei „Russia Today“ 
uždėjo antraštę“, - teigia N. Maliukevičius.
N. Maliukevičius pabrėžia, kad garso įraše visiškai nesigirdi to, ką 
parašė „Russia Today“ - kad snaiperius pasamdė Maidano lyderiai.

> lot. And that is why, in such situations, we propose an international
> investigation committee. We and the Ukrainians have a right to know what
 >
Nenori ukrainieciai komisiju. "Mocit ich nado". Ir pyksta, kad vakarai 
neketina kelti bakchanalija. Ukrainieciai nesupranta, kad ukrainieciu 
priesai vakarams yra tokie patys zmones kaip ir rusai

> happened there, who is responsible… And I am happy that you support
> this, Ms. chancellor. On Maidan, there were many democratic forces. But
> also fascists. The west was directly and indirectly involved. And then
 >
Cia klysta. Nebuvo ten demokratu, nebuvo ten fasistu. Ten buvo 
baudziauninku sukeltas maistas su siandien matomomis pasekmemis.

> foreign minister Steinmeier, the French and Polish foreign minister
> signed a contract with Janukovych and the opposition. And now you say,
 >
Nebent Janukoviciu galima butu laikyti paciu demokratiskiausiu is ten 
buvusiu

> Mr. foreign minister, Janukovych dissolved the contract through his
> fleeing. That is wrong. The people on Maidan rejected this contract with
 >
Baudziaunikai su DEMOKRATISKA sutartimi demonstratyviai nusivale savo 
uzpakali.

> great majority. And you, Mr. foreign minister, also did not advertise
> for this contract on the site. And only after the rejection, Janukovych
> left Kiev. Then, parliament had a meeting, and they voted him out of
> office with 72.88%. Yet, the constitution dictates 75%. Now Mr. Röttgen
 >
Cia jau vakarai su Ukrainos Konstitucija valosi savo uzpakalius

> and others say, well, during a revolution you can’t take the
> constitution to the letter, what are a few percentiles more or less?…
> But Putin references this and says there was no constitutional majority
 >
Ir pabandyk tu dabar papriestarauti Putinui kai pas tave pati pilnos kelnes

> to vote him out of office, and refers to documents received from
> Janukovych. By the way, during the poll, armed soldiers were present.
> Not very democratic. During the plebiscite in Crimea on Sunday, there
> will also be armed soldiers. Also not very democratic. Interesting is
> also that you, Ms. chancellor, say, that such a plebiscite is forbidden
> by the Ukrainian constitution. So when is the constitution to be upheld,
> and when not? When electing the president out of office it is not and
> for the plebiscite in Crimea it is? You should decide whether you accept
> the constitution as a whole or only in specific cases when you feel like
> it. The latter is the way I have seen and don’t like.
>
> Then a new government was formed. Directly accepted by president Obama,
> also by the EU, also from Germany. Ms. Merkel! This government’s vice
> premier minister, the defence minister, the agricultural minister, the
> environmental minister, the Attorney General… are fascists! The head of
> the national security committee was co-founder of the fascist Swoboda
> party. Fascists have important positions and dominate, for example, the
> security sector. And never have fascists voluntarily given up power once
> they had conquered a part of it. At least Germany should have drawn the
 > line here, especially because of our history. When Haider’s FPÖ joined
 >
Ukrainieciu baudziauninkai prisidirbo. Kazkam reiketu apsiimti juos 
atgal suvaryti i kumetynus. O kas ta padarys? Rusija ar Lenkija?

"Rusija pasiūlė Lenkijai pasidalinti Ukrainą"
rusai paleido reaktyvinius sviedinius
3w 
delfi.lt/news/daily/world/rusija-pasiule-lenkijai-pasidalinti-ukraina.d?id=64348074

"Teisinasi dėl siūlymo pasidalyti Ukrainą"
3w 
delfi.lt/news/daily/world/teisinasi-del-siulymo-pasidalyti-ukraina.d?id=64350946
Lenkijos žiniasklaida sekmadienį pranešė, kad RLDP lyderis V. 
Žirinovskis nusiuntė Lenkijai, Vengrijai ir Rumunijai laiškus, kuriuose 
siūloma prisijungti kai kurias Ukrainos sritis surengus jose 
referendumą, analogišką tam, kuris įvyko Kryme kovo 16 d.
„Kodėl lenkai tai apvertė ir apibūdino kaip raginimus pasidalyti 
Ukrainą, galima tik spėlioti. Tuo labiau nesuprantama, kodėl šis 
susirašinėjimas buvo paviešintas“, - pridūrė RLDP spaudos tarnybos atstovas.

"Žurnalistai paviešino V. Putino planą dėl Ukrainos"
3w 
delfi.lt/news/daily/world/zurnalistai-paviesino-v-putino-plana-del-ukrainos.d?id=64352758
Rusija pasiryžusi „įtraukti“ į savo sudėtį „visas Ukrainos rusiškas 
sritis“, įskaitant ir Kijevą. Anksčiau buvęs Vladimiro Putino patarėjas 
ir amerikiečių Cato instituto mokslininkas Andrejus Ilarionovas 
pasakojo, kad savo pretenzijas į pusę Ukrainos V. Putinas išsakė 
George'ui Bushui dar prieš šešerius metus.
Plane buvo numatyti „fašistuojančių žaliūkų“ išpuoliai prieš Lenkijos 
bei Baltijos šalių ambasadas, Europos Komisijos, NATO šalių atstovybes 
ir pasiuntinių rezidencijas. „Chaoso laikotarpiu“ Kijeve buvo planuojama 
„užtikrinti pačių matomiausių banderovcų opozicijos atstovų 
neutralizavimą“ ir parodyti „tikrąjį ukrainietiško fašizmo veidą“.
-
Putinas atsisako pretenziju i Vakaru Ukraina?

"J. Tymošenko: pati galėčiau šauti tam padugnei į kaktą"
3w 
delfi.lt/news/daily/world/j-tymosenko-pati-galeciau-sauti-tam-padugnei-i-kakta.d?id=64356308
„Kai tik galėsiu, pasitelksiu visus savo ryšius, visą pasaulį, kad, po 
galais, iš tos Rusijos šlapios vietos neliktų“, – pareiškė ji.
-
Panasu i sizofrenija.

„Tai peržengia visas ribas. Reikia imti į rankas ginklą ir eiti pliekti 
tų velnio CENZURUOJAMA. Kartu su jų vadovais“, – toliau tęsė J. Tymošenko.
-
Maskoliai, CENZURUOJAMA, Rusija... Kazkokie kliedejimai. Jeigu Maskvoje 
- CENZURUOJAMA ir maskoliai, o ne rusai tai kodel ten Rusija?

Ukrainoje PATYS zmones sau rinkosi Tymosenka. Asmeniskai ji ir man 
patiko. Ir pasaulyje Tynosenko zavejosi. Todel nera priezasties smerkti 
ukrainierciu. Lietuviai taiip pat PATYS sau rinkosi ir Brazauska, ir 
Paksa, ir Kubiliu, ir Adamku, ir Paulauska... Geriau pasiziurekit patys 
i save.
Bet, jeigu ukrainieciai ir vel uz ja balsuos, tai geriau tegu visa 
Ukraina priglaudzia Putinas. Mums Lietuvoje bus maziau bedu. Uztektinai 
mes ju cia patys turime.

Jeigu norite pagelbeti Ukrainai tai pasiulykite humanitarine pagalba 
Tymosenkai isskirti palata ir gydytojus psichiatrineje ligonineje

"Ar Vilniaus kraštas taps Lietuvos Krymu?"
3w 
delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/ar-vilniaus-krastas-taps-lietuvos-krymu.d?id=64348028
Kai po paviešintos Valstybės saugumo departamento informacijos buvo 
užduodami klausimai apie tai, ką jis [V. Tomaševskis – LRT.lt] ar jo 
atstovai veikia Maskvoje, mes girdėjome tik pykčio protrūkius, bet ne 
atsakymus“, – pažymi A. Anušauskas.
NSGK nario nuomone, po visų V. Tomaševskio akibrokštų, atsakomybė 
pirmiausiai tenka socialdemokratų lyderiams, nes šie turi įvertinti, kas 
jiems svarbiau – nacionalinio saugumo interesas ar papildomi balsai 
valdančiojoje koalicijoje.

> the government in Austra, there were even contact barriers! And with the
> fascists in Ukraine we do nothing?! Swoboda has close contacts to the
> NPD and other nazi parties in Europe. The chairman of this party, Olek
> Tjahnybok, has stated the following. I am going to quote him now. You
> need to grasp this, what he has said literally: “Grab your weapons.
> Fight the Russian pigs, the Germans and the Jew swines and others
> pests”. End of quote. I repeat. This man has said “Grab your weapons.
> Fight the Russian pigs, the Germans and the Jew swines and others
> pests”. Attacks on jews and left-wingers are now common and to all this
> you say nothing? You talk with these Swoboda people? I think this is a
> scandal. I have to tell you this clearly.
>
> Now you want, as you said, to impose sanctions, if all else fails. But
> they will not impress Putin. They will only make the situation worse.
 >
Tiesus pasakymas - sankciju Putinui negali buti. Nes... Putinas tvarkosi 
ZMONISKIAU, negu kiti kosove arba Irake.

> Kissinger, the former US foreign minister, is right. He says sanctions
> do not express a strategy but the lack of a strategy. That also holds
> for the escalating military flights over Poland and the Baltic states:
> What’s the point? Accounts of Janukovych and his supporters are blocked
> because they contain stolen state funds. My question: You did not know
> this? Second question: Why only their accounts? What is with the
> billions of oligarch money to support others, why aren’t you interfering
> there? Why is this going so one-sided?
>
> There is only the way of diplomacy! First: The West must recognise the
> legitimate security interests of Russia on Crimea, which is by the way
 >
Tiesus Krymo pripazininmas Rusijai. Kitaip ir buti negali. Visas 
straipsnis apie tai kodel taip turi buti padaryta.

> also how US foreign minister Kerry sees it. We must find a status for
> Crimea with which Ukraine, Russia and we can live. We have to guarantee
> Russia that Ukraine will not become a NATO member. Second: The
 >
Kai Rusija silpna - garantiju nesilaikoma, kai Rusija stipri - vakaru 
garantijos jai nereikalingos. Ka tuom pasieksite?

> perspective of Ukraine lies in a bridge function between the EU and
> Russia. Third: A process of understanding between east and west must be
> initiated in Ukraine, maybe through a federal or confederal status,
 >
Siulymas pradeti Ukrainos dalinima

> maybe even through two presidents. What I accuse the EU and the NATO of:
> Until today, no relationship to Russia has been searched or found. This
 >
Prie Jeltsyno su Rusija valesi savo kojas. Siandien Rusija jau kita. 
Siandien santykiai su Rusija turetu buti keiciami 180 laipsniu. Jeigu 
nespesime persiorientuoti - tuomet laukia blogos pasekmes. Kad tai 
padaryti turi buti keiciami valdininkai ministerijose. Ar mes to , kaip 
tauta norime? Jeigu ne tai visi sitie rasinejimai su tokiu paciu 
pasisekimu galetu buti ir marse.

> has to change dramatically. Security in Europe is not possible against
> or without Russia but only with Russia. And if the crisis is overcome
 >
Kaip ten su Europa tegu buna ju reikalas. Lietuviai, rusai, 
ukrainieciai, baltarusiai yra visiskai TOKIE PATYS su IDENTIOSKAIS 
genais, smegenimis ir mastymu. Tik kalba skiriasi. Todel lietuviu 
politikams neimanoma suprasti, kad vakarai neapsiims "mochit  maskalei"

> one day, one advantage could be that international law is finally
> recognised by all sides again. Thank you. "
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXLy0NGW9sM